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Author Topic: Independent Music Removal  (Read 13618 times)

Offline imin

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Re: Independent Music Removal
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2009, 04:59:58 PM »
I have some 'Jazz Nazi' friend who will insist that ONLY 'Traditional Jazz' (which as you noted critics also love) is the only 'true' jazz.  2 me that is contrary to all that jazz was about - it is after all a music based on improvisation.  It's origin was the blues and 'Jazz' started out as a dance music.  But then BeeBop took off in the early '50's- that's the style & time period that these folks really latched onto.  But, BeeBop wasn't just a style of music.  When you look into it  - it was a style of living AT THAT TIME.  It is inseparable from the times that it was developed.           
       These new musicians can NEVER play BeeBop and apparently they haven't got the guts to dig deeper inside themselves to see what style they might develop on their own.  I had the opportunity to hang-out with Miles Davis in NY wile he was recording 'Decoy' and 'You're Under Arrest'.  He got heavily criticized for abandoning 'Traditional Jazz'.  But he told them all to go ^#*% themselves - to him he'd said all he had to say in that genre and he wanted to keep evolving (and make money).  Again, 'Jazz' got it's start as a dance music, party music not the high'brow elitist music that it was turned into by marketing people.
       Never, never have I considered myself a 'Smooth Jazz' musician.  My music contains elements of jazz, R&B, Soul, Rock and music from ethnic cultures.  But radio needs to 'pigeon hole' your sound and marketing folks need to brand you in short, quick easy to understand phrases - so you get dumped into this pile with folks whose music may or may not have the same quality or basic philosophy as what you are trying to achieve.

Offline twcclassics

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Re: Independent Music Removal
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2009, 12:10:11 PM »
Jazz Nazi. Haha. Love it! :happy:

You're right, Jeanne. Jazz critics and traditional jazz fans are so narrow-minded when it comes to what jazz music is. What I find interesting is that they all say the same thing. It's like they're reading from the "Non-Traditional Jazz Hater's Guide Book." Take a look at a typical "review" by allmusic.com critic Scott Yanow.

Quote
Altoist Eric Marienthal (who is also heard on tenor, soprano and baritone) plays well throughout One Touch but he is the only reason to acquire this disc. The backup, which includes keyboardist-producer Jeff Lorber, a few vocalists and guest appearances from pianist David Benoit and bassist John Patitucci, is mostly pretty anonymous. The originals are forgettable and usually fade out when the music gets too heated. With all of the selections clocking in between three-and-a-half and almost five minutes, potential radio airplay was obviously the main purpose behind the music, which is consistently commercial, accessible, mildly soulful and very predictable. At best, One Touch succeeds as background music but a close listen will frustrate listeners who know that Eric Marienthal is capable of much more.

According to Mr. Yanow, the backup musicians are bad because they stay "anonymous." Um, isn't that what backup musicians are suppose to do? I love his quote about how "potential radio airplay was obviously the main purpose behind the music." That comment is typical in his reviews. Apparently, Eric is an artist that wants to make money and get fans by having his music played on radio. Who does he think he is!? Seriously, what artist doesn't want airplay, fans, and a steady paycheck? :blink:

And what exactly is "a close listen?" You're either listening to the music or you're not. And fans will be frustrated because "Eric Marienthal is capable of much more." Really? Funny, anytime I've listened to (oh, excuse me..."closely" listened to) a song by an artist I liked, I either liked the song or I didn't. I've never been "frustrated" thinking they were "capable of much more." Sounds like something you'd say to your kid.

As for the originals being "forgettable." I agree somewhat. There are some duds on that album. But most albums are like that. But there are some songs that are memorable. Most of Yanow's reviews are like this. However, if you go to his website, he says that he "loves all eras of jazz and blues." Really!? You have a funny way of showing it. Look, I don't expect a critic to like all forms of music, but why in the world would you review a genre (or sub-genre) that you clearly loathe?

Not only does it make you look like a douche, but it's useless to those who do like it. I'd say about 90% of the jazz albums I like have scathing reviews. And they pretty much all say the same thing. "Predictable background music," "anonymous backup musicians," "clearly written for commercial airplay." Gee, thanks Mr. Critic. You've been really helpful. Now I know what to buy  and what to pass up. :yawn:

In addition to jazz being a business like any other genre, "jazz nazi's" don't seem to realize that jazz is a melding of genres. It's rock, it's R&B, it's blues, it's pop. Combined in various forms, improvised, and jazzed-up. That's why I have a tremendous amount of respect for Miles Davis. He understood both. He never stayed with any style for too long. He was always evolving and willing to try new things. Sadly, few artists have that mindset. They're comfortable staying where they are. Never really going out on a limb to try something new, at the risk of it being a flop.

While I have a lot of respect for Miles, I've never really cared for his music. You hear jazz fans all the time saying how "Kind of Blue" is one of the best jazz albums ever made. I honestly don't get it. Sure, it's thoughtful and "cool," but it's also rather dull. The title track, in particular, seems like it's just the same few notes over and over. The only Miles Davis album I like is "Aura." Which was one of his last recordings. I love it because it's unlike any album he ever did. In fact, it's unlike any album you'll probably ever hear! Especially "Yellow." Love that song! :biggrin:
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Offline imin

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Re: Independent Music Removal
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2009, 07:55:24 PM »
I agree about 'Aura' but, also like 'Tutu' the Marcus Miller produced album denounced by critics as 'too commercial" - ummmm, yeah because it's radio friendly, funky music and appeals to a broad spectrum of music listeners!  True, Miles at the end of his career made some duds - he didn't seem to know what he wanted to do but, he knew he didn't want to do anything he'd already done.  He suffered from 'Star Syndrome' - everyone in his inner circle was in someway tied to him as a source of finance - consequently they all agreed with anything he wanted to do - he had no sincere people looking out for his interests and no one willing to say 'Hey, luv ya man, but that's crap!' except music critics whom he didn't respect anyway.  Having lost all the musicians who really mattered to him - the true pioneers of 'BeeBop' John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Art Blakey, Eric Dolphy, Thelonious Monk, Gil Evans - all of whose music he ripped-off to create himself (since most of them self destructed - there were no challengers when he was crowned a genius) he had no direction to follow.  He wasn't the pioneer history has made him - they were - he simply out lived them!
     Still that's no excuse for the 'Traditional Jazz' snobs to restrict 'all that is true jazz' to the 'BeeBop' era (which as I mentioned they can never recreate or equal).  They leave no room for growth of the genre!  But then too you have to wonder - when listening to John Coltrane at the end of his career or Art Ensemble of Chicago - where did they leave any room for anyone to go.  They took the music so far into the avant-garde - no one could follow.  Excuse me for wanting a melody I can hum - that lifts me out of my trite little funk and causes me to snap my fingers.  Yes, I'm guilty of enjoying David Sanborn more than Coltrane (they may revoke my degree from Berklee College of music and remove me from the NAACP for saying so).  And as you mentioned, what's so wrong about wanting to be played on the radio?  What's so wrong about appealing to people of a broad range instead of a little narrow fringe?
     And who anoints these music critics anyway?  I mean what exactly is their talent or contribution to society except to criticize others who do have talent and are contributing to the culture which binds our society and elevates us to something more than 'make-the-donuts', work-alcoholics!

Offline Nick

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Re: Independent Music Removal
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2009, 03:09:38 PM »
I found this "critique" of "smooth jazz" a few days ago...

"R.I.P. Smooth Jazz, 1985-2008?"
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/column/rip-smooth-jazz-1985-2008/
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Offline gt1racerlHDl

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Re: Independent Music Removal
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2009, 04:55:03 PM »
there's a reply to it Nick ;)

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/column/rip-smooth-jazz-round-two/

The dude is a Smooth Jazz Hater and criticizes Jeff Lorber and Smooth Jazz itself so i see Smooth jazz Never leaving anytime soon.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 04:57:04 PM by Gt1racer47 »