TWC Today Forums
Present - The Weather Channel 2000 => Everything Else TWC => Topic started by: toxictwister00 on October 02, 2012, 08:36:30 AM
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I always wondered about this. It's an interesting concept to me.
The Weather Channel to Name Winter Storms
(http://i.imwx.com/common/articles/images/naming-winter-storms_650x366.jpg)
Video Link: http://www.weather.com/news/why-we-name-winter-storms-20121001 (http://www.weather.com/news/why-we-name-winter-storms-20121001)
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I always wondered about this. It's an interesting concept to me.
The Weather Channel to Name Winter Storms
([url]http://i.imwx.com/common/articles/images/naming-winter-storms_650x366.jpg[/url])
Video Link: [url]http://www.weather.com/news/why-we-name-winter-storms-20121001[/url] ([url]http://www.weather.com/news/why-we-name-winter-storms-20121001[/url])
*sigh* What is TWC thinking, with this concept? :no: (http://www.hypnosnet.org/forum/images/smiles/fail.gif)
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I wonder about the criteria for it. It has to vary drastically by regions, a 1 footer in the Southeast would carry more merit for a name than a 1 footer in the Northeast would.
I kinda like the idea, (on the fence about how it can effectively work) but given how TWC has been now, I would feel more comfortable about this if they were working in conjunction with the HPC so it doesn't come off as being overly gloried and hyped which we know is one of the main motivators for this.
Also they put a lot of stake into talking about naming Snowstorms, what about Icestorms? I mean they mention ice being in the criteria in the article, but an icestorm by itself carries even more drastic effects to the population/property than snowstorms.
Wow, the more I think about this, the more it's starting to feel like a bad idea. More questions than answers coming up in my head. Best of luck to them on the concept though.
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I wonder about the criteria for it. It has to vary drastically by regions, a 1 footer in the Southeast would carry more merit for a name than a 1 footer in the Northeast would.
I kinda like the idea, (on the fence about how it can effectively work) but given how TWC has been now, I would feel more comfortable about this if they were working in conjunction with the HPC so it doesn't come off as being overly gloried and hyped which we know is one of the main motivators for this.
Also they put a lot of stake into talking about naming Snowstorms, what about Icestorms? I mean they mention ice being in the criteria in the article, but an icestorm by itself carries even more drastic effects to the population/property than snowstorms.
Wow, the more I think about this, the more it's starting to feel like a bad idea. More questions than answers coming up in my head. Best of luck to them on the concept though.
Nothing new for the Northern Plains. Folks up here have been "naming" winter storms that blow through for at least a decade. I do wonder what the criteria is, though.
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If anyone were to do that, it would need to be the NWS or a similar agency. TWC fails again. *facepalm*
Also, I can't wait to see someone say "Winter Storm Magnus" or "Winter Storm Q" with a straight face :P
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This link gives insight on the names. Maybe I'm not giving TWC much credit, but I'm pretty sure a lot of these names are being used for pop culture references.
http://www.weather.com/news/winter-storm-names-20121001 (http://www.weather.com/news/winter-storm-names-20121001)
If anyone were to do that, it would need to be the NWS or a similar agency. TWC fails again. *facepalm*
Also, I can't wait to see someone say "Winter Storm Magnus" or "Winter Storm Q" with a straight face :P
Slightly less humorous than using the name Trojan. :whistling: :P
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I am not a huge fan of this, at all. I don't see the point. If a storm is so noteworthy, then we name it ourselves, such as Storm of the Century, Groundhog's Day Blizzard, and the President's Day Storm. Just another gimmick to get viewers, I suppose. If it works, good for them, but I most certainly am not a fan of the idea.
I wonder what others within the network think?
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I do wonder what the criteria is, though.
Snow & Wind Impacts, Ice & Snow Accumulation, Regional impacts (Tom Niziol compared Buffalo, NY to Atlanta, GA saying a 2" snowstorm in Buffalo wouldn't mean much but a 2" snowstorm in Atlanta would.)
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I would rather see TWC cover the impacts, watches, and warnings with each winter storm. There are too many factors involved to worry about naming one, and there are many little storms that wouldn't get named but are very capable of causing substantial problems.
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I would rather see TWC cover the impacts, watches, and warnings with each winter storm. There are too many factors involved to worry about naming one, and there are many little storms that wouldn't get named but are very capable of causing substantial problems.
I Agree, that's the same thing i was thinking when i saw the names pop up on my TV.
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I may be the only few who actually like this idea. I don't think TWC should be doing it, I think officially naming a storm should lie in the hands of the NWS though. One major reason why I support naming winter storms is because winter storms are hugely underrated compared to lets say your average named tropical storm or even a Cat. 1 hurricane. For example, such power storms like the Post-Christmas blizzard of 2010, had such major impacts and statistics here in the northeast. I'm saying this not because what impacts it makes, but the statistics of the storm as well. MSLP dropped to 964mb in the storm, similar to a Cat 3. hurricane. Winds gusted up to 94mph with that blizzard in Nova Scotia (highest wind gust on Long Island was 70mph). Those are some pretty intense winds! Also, some major coastal storms can bring major storm surge and coastal flooding, something hurricanes can do as well. Precipitation is major as well, some storms dropping 2' of snow can cause grid lock in many cities and high amount of rain can cause serious flooding, and ice can create problems too. My alternative argument is why not? Europe has been naming storms since 1954, and Europe can get some pretty intense storms as well with very high winds, high amounts of precip. etc. I agree with Dr. Jeff Masters' in this quote.
Quote from Dr. Jeff Masters' Wunderblog:
Do you remember the North American blizzard of February 4, 2010? No? Well, do you remember Snowmageddon, the massive February 2010 Nor'easter that dumped up to 38" of snow in the mid-Atlantic, and killed 41 people? The two storms are the same, but having a simple name for the snowstorm like "Snowmageddon" helps us identify and remember the impacts of the storm. Naming a major winter storm makes even more sense if it is done before the storm hits, to aid in raising awareness of the storm, and to reduce the risks the public faces
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No comment. :facepalm:
http://www.weather.com/news/why-we-name-winter-storms-20121001 (http://www.weather.com/news/why-we-name-winter-storms-20121001)
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Craig, I'm fine with naming big winter storms after they occur. ;) I'm not a fan of seeing someone wasting precious time trying to decide if a highly uncertain and complex winter storm should be named before it happens. The public only wants to know what's going to happen, how much will fall, when will it start and end, and what should they do. Besides, what would we define as the naming criteria for a developing winter storm? Pressure and winds alone won't work. You have to consider so many other factors.
Furthermore, you're taking a huge risk of downplaying unnamed winter storms before they create disasters. A small area of low pressure could trigger 1/2" of ice from freezing drizzle over Atlanta, or a small Alberta clipper could set up lake-effect bands that dump 1'-2' of snow and cause blizzard conditions in Chicago. These hypothetical systems would never be named before they happened as they're so subtle, but they would create a nightmare for those cities that names may be needed after the fact.
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This certainly has to be one of their more bizarre ideas. :dunno:
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Craig, I'm fine with naming big winter storms after they occur. ;) I'm not a fan of seeing someone wasting precious time trying to decide if a highly uncertain and complex winter storm should be named before it happens. The public only wants to know what's going to happen, how much will fall, when will it start and end, and what should they do. Besides, what would we define as the naming criteria for a developing winter storm? Pressure and winds alone won't work. You have to consider so many other factors.
Furthermore, you're taking a huge risk of downplaying unnamed winter storms before they create disasters. A small area of low pressure could trigger 1/2" of ice from freezing drizzle over Atlanta, or a small Alberta clipper could set up lake-effect bands that dump 1'-2' of snow and cause blizzard conditions in Chicago. These hypothetical systems would never be named before they happened as they're so subtle, but they would create a nightmare for those cities that names may be needed after the fact.
I see your point. I think I have came to conclusion but I'd like to see their criteria for naming specific storms. It should be interesting what the criteria is and I wonder if it varies from region to region.
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Craig, I'm fine with naming big winter storms after they occur. ;) I'm not a fan of seeing someone wasting precious time trying to decide if a highly uncertain and complex winter storm should be named before it happens. The public only wants to know what's going to happen, how much will fall, when will it start and end, and what should they do. Besides, what would we define as the naming criteria for a developing winter storm? Pressure and winds alone won't work. You have to consider so many other factors.
Furthermore, you're taking a huge risk of downplaying unnamed winter storms before they create disasters. A small area of low pressure could trigger 1/2" of ice from freezing drizzle over Atlanta, or a small Alberta clipper could set up lake-effect bands that dump 1'-2' of snow and cause blizzard conditions in Chicago. These hypothetical systems would never be named before they happened as they're so subtle, but they would create a nightmare for those cities that names may be needed after the fact.
I see your point. I think I have came to conclusion but I'd like to see their criteria for naming specific storms. It should be interesting what the criteria is and I wonder if it varies from region to region.
It should be if they plan on measuring it by overall impact - certain parts of the country are not as prepared for a big winter storm apart from another, especially since they don't expect it.
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Since this topic is becoming its own entity, I've merged everything together into one thread for you all. ;) Also, the NWS recently stated "no opinion" on this matter as they have no control on private weather industries, but they are not going to get involved in the naming process.
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Since this topic is becoming its own entity, I've merged everything together into one thread for you all. ;) Also, the NWS recently stated "no opinion" on this matter as they have no control on private weather industries, but they are not going to get involved in the naming process.
Thanks Patrick! I missed the conversation going on and just made a thread since I thought it was pretty interesting :)
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Ha! We were talking about this in my meteorology class today. I also saw the article and video on weather.com this morning. Apparently this has "blown up" into a big discussion and debate.
The biggest problem we talked about is consistency. For what may be the first time (I'm not sure), a private sector is doing something the NWS isn't. So the question is: will NWS follow TWC in naming the storms? If so, what a change this will be. If not, then even more confusion will arise because if TWC is talking about, say, Caesar, and NWS is talking about "this major snowstorm," how will people know if they're the same storm, a different storm, etc?
Criteria based on the naming is also a big question in my mind, as well. I guess we'll just have to see how it all plays out this winter...
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Okay... TWC have really gone cuckoo now IMO :rolleyes: :P
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I just wonder how they can mention Winter Storm Gandolf with a straight face. :P
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Oh my god...
:facepalm: :wacko: :censored:
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The more I think about it they probably should test this only on blizzards/icestorms first if there any this winter and see how that goes before broadening it out to overall winter storms.
Again, the idea of naming Winter Storms overall is not that bad. There are NWS offices (NWS Buffalo) and local news stations (I've heard Minneapolis and parts of CT do this) that have been doing this for years, the thing is they're local, the key word here. What they're planning to do is certainly going to be much more challenging since they're focusing on the entire regions of the nation.
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The more I think about it they probably should test this only on blizzards/icestorms first if there any this winter and see how that goes before broadening it out to overall winter storms.
Again, the idea of naming Winter Storms overall is not that bad. There are NWS offices (NWS Buffalo) and local news stations (I've heard Minneapolis and parts of CT do this) that have been doing this for years, the thing is they're local, the key word here. What they're planning to do is certainly going to be much more challenging since they're focusing on the entire regions of the nation.
Yep...the locals here have been naming winter storms since 1997.
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Antics like this don't help TWC,
TWCHD 20121003 0459 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLHoXdJ0xu0#ws)
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I am one who is in the "let the NWS handle it" boat.
When I read "social media world", that's a red flag to me....
Did anybody who came up with this list know about "retiring" names? :rolleyes:
They're running into planet/moon names!
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http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/weather/weather-blog/bal-wx-accuweather-criticizes-weather-channel-winter-stormnaming-plan-20121003,0,983982.story (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/weather/weather-blog/bal-wx-accuweather-criticizes-weather-channel-winter-stormnaming-plan-20121003,0,983982.story)
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Heh, they're ones to talk. Who was it again that implemented a 25 Day Forecast? :whistling: Accuweather is just mad because The Weather Channel beat them to the punch. :rolleyes:
Bunch of hypocrites. <_<
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Antics like this don't help TWC,
TWCHD 20121003 0459 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLHoXdJ0xu0#ws[/url])
What a fool Al Roker is...
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What would qualify as a winter storm noteworthy enough to be named? I have a feeling that these names will be used mostly for winter storms in TWC's pet region, the East Coast, and winter storms in the Interior West, the Plains, and northern New England will be largely ignored. Case in point: the one-footer hitting Minnesota right now. Sometimes the noteworthiness of a storm isn't known until after it's passed, sometimes even after the whole winter has passed. The January 12, 2012 stormwas the notable event of the 2012 winter season, but in a season like 2010-11 it would've just been part of the background, a nuisance snow. We don't know at the time how the rest of the season will shape up.
I also don't even care for the naming of hurricanes. I've always found that the usual procedure with winter storms was better, with a descriptive name being attached to it, most of the time given after the fact. It's sort of like naming a baby - it often pays to observe its characteristics before deciding on an appropriate name. The "Labor Day Hurricane of 1935" or the "Great Gale of 1815" to me is more evocative than "Hurricane Isaac". Likewise, "The Pre-Christmas Blizzard of 2010", the "Great Snow of 2013", the "Groundhog Day Blizzard", the "Superstorm of 1993", and the "Carolina Crusher" evokes more than "Winter Storm Athena" and "Winter Storm Nemo". Also, it's quite unnecessary, since winter storms are already adequately cataloged, with the exception of the usual East-Coaster shenanigans.
I prefer a system where winter storms or hurricanes are just numbered, with noteworthy ones receiving descriptive or evocative monikers. In fact I'd like for the descriptive names to be used more often than they are now, but I don't care for using a list of preselected names.
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TWC has their first named stormed Athena.
Are the NBCU Comcast Stations going to use this name?
I doubt any other non NBCU stations are.
WNBC is using Nor'easter.
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I don't mind the names. It does make it easier to tell the storms apart. :thumbsup:
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National Weather Service: Just say no to Athena.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/national-weather-service-just-say-no-to-athena/2012/11/07/2eee7154-28e8-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_blog.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/national-weather-service-just-say-no-to-athena/2012/11/07/2eee7154-28e8-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_blog.html)
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National Weather Service: Just say no to Athena.
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/national-weather-service-just-say-no-to-athena/2012/11/07/2eee7154-28e8-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_blog.html[/url] ([url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/national-weather-service-just-say-no-to-athena/2012/11/07/2eee7154-28e8-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_blog.html[/url])
Just a memo to employees to refrain from calling that. Smart thinking after the Frankenstorm mess they had.
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Well, TWC has already named their second storm. "Brutus" is the one that will be impacting the Northern Rockies over the next few days.
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Well, TWC has already named their second storm. "Brutus" is the one that will be impacting the Northern Rockies over the next few days.
Geez, what a publicity stunt. At least they named a note-worthy storm.
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Man, TWC will try anything to improve their ratings, but IMO naming winter storms is just a little cuckoo :wacko: :rolleyes:
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We've been discussing about this in meteorology club. It's just too funny twc must be desperate
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The Weather Channel is their channel, not the National Weather Service's channel. If they want to name their storms, let them. Who are we to say they can't?
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The Weather Channel is their channel, not the National Weather Service's channel. If they want to name their storms, let them. Who are we to say they can't?
Indeed , and if naming storms is the only way to keep longform OFF TWC during the day, so be it. I can't remember the last time I saw longform during the day. I also can't believe TWC's Studio is still red. Is TWC breaking any of their 2005 records? TWC didn't have a red studio in 05 but they did have Storm Alert a few times. Seemed like forever after Kat.
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Nicole Mitchell thinks it's a gimmick too:
Yeah, I thought the naming thing was pure gimmick (as well as hubris).
Nice to see most meteorologists and savvy viewers agree! :-)
[url]http://www.examiner.com/article/weather-channel-naming-system-backfires-when-nws-rejects-athena[/url] ([url]http://www.examiner.com/article/weather-channel-naming-system-backfires-when-nws-rejects-athena[/url])
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The Weather Channel is their channel, not the National Weather Service's channel. If they want to name their storms, let them. Who are we to say they can't?
You're right. "We" (being the people who are against naming winter storms) have no right to tell TWC what to do. But, and here's where it can get confusing, TWC needs to realize that other stations and the NWS are probably not going to follow suit. And when you have a named winter storm by TWC and a generalization, or perhaps another name for the same darn storm by another station or the NWS, the public is going to get horribly confused.
The main point is, the public should be the top priority, but we all know their ratings are the top priority, and so that's why they're doing this in the first place.
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Well, TWC has already named their second storm. "Brutus" is the one that will be impacting the Northern Rockies over the next few days.
Geez, what a publicity stunt. At least they named a note-worthy storm.
The storm we had in the northeast wasn't note-worthy? A foot of snow+ in early November in some places in not note-worthy? I'm not defending TWC here, I think it's a very silly idea for them to name storms especially since they have no definite criteria yet.
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The common misconception seems to be that TWC is a public service. It's not. Its a commercial product designed to generate revenue just like every other channel and news service. One might blame the NWS for continuing to have poor relations with the general population. It's unfair to say that TWC is forcing this down peoples throats and encouraging other stations or the NWS to accept the name. I haven't seen one indication of that. In fact it was the HPC under the NWS that made the name Frankenstorm. That terminology undercut the hurricane status that had been maintained by the NHC and caused greater confusion. I haven't seen anyone complain about TWCs Torcon levels or their proprietary threat levels yet endless discussion over the naming thing. It was a unique idea that I think was worth a shot.
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Well, TWC has already named their second storm. "Brutus" is the one that will be impacting the Northern Rockies over the next few days.
Geez, what a publicity stunt. At least they named a note-worthy storm.
The storm we had in the northeast wasn't note-worthy? A foot of snow+ in early November in some places in not note-worthy? I'm not defending TWC here, I think it's a very silly idea for them to name storms especially since they have no definite criteria yet.
This is actually a good example of why no one is going to get a set criteria for these storms. Folks here in the Northern Plains regard a foot of snow in November differently than other parts of the country. That did sound a bit insensitive though - my apologies.
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TWC naming winter storms is strange and odd.
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TWC has named its third winter storm. "Caesar" is the one striking the Upper Midwest.
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Was going to make a topic about the storm names but Imma just revive this because I just tuned into TWC and noticed a storm named Virgil. And Virgil is almost at the end of that list on the first post.
What would happen if TWC were to run out of those names on that list? I mean, it's possible that Virgil *may* be the last storm of the winter season but hypothetically, what if they run out of names after the very last one? Do you think they may have a backup list? Or use Greek names like in hurricanes?
Also, I know this may be asked before but I just wanted to know regardless: How do you feel about TWC naming these storms now? Is it as useful as hurricanes? Confusing?
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I've always wondered that too, Ana! :lol: I think they probably had a backup list just in case.
Unfortunately, I was unable to watch all of that 30-minute special "A Storm Named Winter" but did see a little tidbit where a Latin high school class created four new name lists. Why a Latin class would be doing this is beyond me. <_< To be honest, I am not really sure if that was just for fun or if TWC was seriously considering using the new names the class came up with. But I personally thought it was a serious effort, and if so, then it looks like TWC may continue naming winter storms in the future.
Judging by some posts on TWC's Facebook page, I know quite a few people dislike TWC naming winter storms. But, on the other hand, others don't seem to mind it. And, especially after "Nemo," a lot of other companies and stations seemed to pick up the naming (for example, I heard a reporter on ESPN mention the name "Nemo"). So TWC will have to consider quite a lot in deciding whether to name winter storms in the future.
Like I said, I was unable to catch that special on the naming of winter storms, so it's possible that what I just said and more was covered in that special. Let me know what I missed for those of you who saw it.
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If they have a backup list of names, they haven't told anyone about it. I doubt they had one when they launched this idea, so they better start thinking of one now or make the threshold harder to gain naming status. It would be better if they came forward and gave us their criteria for naming that would allow everything to be objective and transparent. Until they do, the rest of the scientific community won't take this idea with any merit going forward into future winter seasons.
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TWC is now on its 24th named storm, with only 2 remaining (Y and Z). With us being well into spring, it's probably unlikely that they will run out, but who would have thought we would have had two named storms in April?! :blink:
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TWC is now on its 24th named storm, with only 2 remaining (Y and Z). With us being well into spring, it's probably unlikely that they will run out, but who would have thought we would have had two named storms in April?! :blink:
I'm actually surprised that they didn't run out. Not because their parameters for a named storm are too generous, but because it's much easier to wind up with multiple winter storm systems at the same time than it is with hurricanes, which have a tendency to come one-at-a-time.
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I wonder if it would be possible in theory for a winter storm name to be retired, like hurricane names, e.g. if the storm caused many casualties. In addition, I wonder if TWC has six separate lists for winter storms much like the six lists used for hurricanes that are used every year in six-year cycles.
If I had to throw out a guess as to why TWC is doing this now, I would suppose that it helps them to be able to cover these storms extensively. I feel that TWC anticipates and enjoys covering hurricanes, and they want to be able to keep the excitement going during the winter months when there normally aren't any.
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TWC is now on its 24th named storm, with only 2 remaining (Y and Z). With us being well into spring, it's probably unlikely that they will run out, but who would have thought we would have had two named storms in April?! :blink:
I'm actually surprised that they didn't run out. Not because their parameters for a named storm are too generous, but because it's much easier to wind up with multiple winter storm systems at the same time than it is with hurricanes, which have a tendency to come one-at-a-time.
I wouldn't be surprised if they DID run out. The rockies still get winter storms during April and at times, early May. It's not uncommon to find snow in the mountainous areas of ID/MT/WY. While I hope it's not major enough to get named, if they do run out of names it makes me think if they have a backup list of names similar to how they use Greek names after running of Atlantic Hurricane names.
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We had a clown fish (Nemo) a while back, and now we have a bear with a green tie (Yogi). Anyway, someone asked TWC what would happen in the event that the list was used up, and the answer just aired. A new list has been submitted to TWC, apparently by a school class. The first name on the new list would be Achilles if I heard right.
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Well guys, it happened. TWC has restarted the alphabet with "Winter Storm Achilles."
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Well guys, it happened. TWC has restarted the alphabet with "Winter Storm Achilles."
Ugh.
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Well guys, it happened. TWC has restarted the alphabet with "Winter Storm Achilles."
Somehow, I just knew it would. :rolleyes: I guess this will hold them over for one more month until the start of the Atlantic hurricane season.